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Home > Realms Stuff > Forgotten Realms Mailing List FAQ

Forgotten Realms Mailing List FAQ
Table of Contents (* for new or updated topics)

 1.2.11.   What gods existed at the time of the Dawn Cataclysm?
*1.2.12.   On page 37 of F&A there is a mention of the
           '...Seven Lost Gods...' Does anyone know who they were/are?
*1.2.13.   Can humans worship demihuman gods? What about the reverse?
*1.2.14.   Do Realms clerics have major access to the sun sphere, and
           minor access to elemental fire and air, traveler,
           and war spheres?
*1.2.15.   Does AO also take power over all the other deities in
           FR besides the human ones in the normal pantheon?
*1.2.16.   During the ToT was it only human gods who were cast down,
           or were demihuman gods similarly affected?
*1.2.17.   What happens if an other-spheric priest comes over to the
           Realms, bringing his worship of god with him?

===========================================================================
1.2.11. What gods existed at the time of the Dawn Cataclysm?
Answer: We don't know for sure:

Tavis King compiled a partial list:

Amaunator, Jannath, Jergal, Kozah, Moander, Mystryl(Mystra), Selune,
Shar, Targus, and Tyche are listed in the Netheril Boxed set.  Lathander
must also have existed if he started the cataclysm.
TOP | Intro

1.2.12. On page 37 of F&A there is a mention of the '...Seven Lost
Gods...' Does anyone know who they were/are?

George Krashos and Eric Boyd have both opined on the matter:

George:
The matter of the Seven Lost Gods has always been one of Eric's pet FR
conundrums, and without pre-empting his inevitable contribution to this
thread, I believe the Seven Lost Gods should include the following:

1. Jergal
2. Garagos
3. Moander
4. Shaundakul
5. Ghaunadar

Note that this leaves two slots free, and I have some idea as to which
gods I'd put in, but the fact is that there is no 'canon' answer to this
question. Put in any "old" gods you like - heck, make up some gods that
have been slain or have died due to loss of worship/neglect. Also in
Off-List discussion, the tie between Westgate and the Seven Lost Gods
has been discussed. We know little of the history of Westgate and we
don't even know who or what first colonised the area. Suggestions in
regard to the nation that first founded Westgate have centered mostly on
Jhaamdath (sp?) - the nation first discussed in LOI and EotSS. What gods
did the nation of Jhaamdath worship? It seems that FR conundrums never
go away.... :)

Eric:
First a bit of background:

The novel "Azure Bonds" revealed that there were seven hills with rings
of stone plinths south and west of Westgate. One of these hills, the
Hill of Fangs, was firmly associated with Moander.

In an off-hand reference in one of Ed's novels, there is a reference to
the "Seven Lost Gods." I can no longer find this reference, but I know
its out there somewhere. (If you find this reference, please let me know
the source and page number.)

When I was working on the Major Centers of Worship write-up in Moander's
write-up in F&A, I linked the two, and now the "Seven Lost Gods" are
firmly tied to the seven hills outside of Westgate.

In "Ruins of Myth Drannor", just before the discussion of Shaundakul,
there is a discussion of "old" gods whose worship is faded. This
discussion mentions that the cult of Garagos was once strong in Westgate
and that Savras was once venerated as the god of worshipers in the
South.

In "Prayers from the Faithful," we learn that Silvanus was once
venerated in a vanished woodland south and west of the city of Westgate.

I recently learned about five heretofore-unknown names of gods who
"bowed down before Bane." This is mentioned in the book that accompanied
the old "Pools of Radiance" computer game.

So, who are the Seven Lost Gods?

Only Moander is an absolute given, as noted above.

Garagos, and to a lesser extent, Savras, seem like likely candidates
given their geographic centers of interest.

Given that "Lost" seems to imply "gods whose worship has declined
significantly and who may or may not be dead", I might add the following
deities to the list:

Jergal and Ghaunadaur. (Jergal, while not dead, has certainly vanished
from the perspective of most humans of Faerun. Ghaunadaur seems like a
good candidate because he attracts only a few cultists, and he's dark,
sinister, and evil.)

Other possibilities include Silvanus (because of that PftF reference)
and Shaundakul (although the latter's base was farther north, around
Myth Drannor.)

The five names from the computer game "Pool of Radiance" are interesting
candidates as well. One theory I'm considering is that the "current"
Seven Lost Gods were venerated outside of Westgate several centuries
ago. However, their temples were built atop the ruins of an earlier
civilization, and that realm's temples were dedicated to seven truly
lost and forgotten deities. Maybe the five names mentioned in "Pool of
Radiance" were of that civilization, and their "bowing down to Bane"
occurred when the Father of Xvim was in his ascendance long, long ago.

Alfred Hailey added:

It's not a given that the five names mentioned in "Pool of Radiance"
were actually gods - Tyranthraxus was a special daemon who appeared in
two adventures. Properly though, they were:

Maram of the Great Spear
Haask, Voice of Hargut
Tyranthraxus the Flamed One
Borem of the Lake of Boiling Mud
Camnod the Unseen
TOP | Intro

1.2.13. Can humans worship demihuman gods? What about the reverse?

Eric Boyd clarified:

Demihumans can and do worship human gods. Such practices have been
depicted time and time again in Forgotten Realms products, particularly
the novels.

My personal impression is that this is caused out-of-game in large part
because the two boxed sets, Forgotten Realms Adventures, and all the
Time of Troubles products promoted the human gods at the expense of the
demihuman gods. Perhaps some of the authors mistakenly thought the
Realms were akin to Dragonlance, i.e. one pantheon for all races?

In any event, it is my opinion (and nothing more than that), that while
demihumans of the Realms on occasion do choose to venerate human gods,
it is far, far less common than commonly depicted in FR products, with a
few notable exceptions. Those exceptions are primarily cases where a
"human" god is in fact a major part of a demihuman pantheon as well.
Examples of such are limited to Gond (gnomes), Mielikki (elves), and
Tymora (halflings) if I recall correctly.
TOP | Intro

1.2.14. Do Realms clerics have major access to the sun sphere, and minor
access to elemental fire and air, traveler, and war spheres?

In Faiths & Avatars there are listed spheres for clerics in the FR, but
in new Priest Spell Compendium, vol.1, the spheres for clerics were a
bit shortened. There, clerics were shown to not have major access to the
sun sphere, and minor access to elemental fire and air, traveler, and
war spheres. This conflicts with F&A.

Eric Boyd thought:

I asked Julia Martin her opinion, with which I concur.

Stick with the spheres laid out in F&A.

F&A already cut back cleric access from the statement in the PHB. Also,
I don't have the sources handy to check, but PSC1 might be contingent on
the slight "reorganization" of spheres a la PO:S&M that the Realms
doesn't use.
TOP | Intro

1.2.15. Does AO also take power over all the other deities in FR besides
the human ones in the normal pantheon?

Eric Boyd:

Yes, but ONLY with regards to their connection with Realmspace. Think of
him like a local traffic cop. He doesn't care what those out-of-towners
do elsewhere, except when they're in his jurisdiction. When they are in
his jurisdiction, he's got absolute authority, but exercises it only
when absolutely necessary.
TOP | Intro

1.2.16. During the ToT was it only human gods who were cast down, or
were demihuman gods similarly affected?

All of the gods descended.  In the FR Comics, Clangeddin Silverbeard and
Labelas Enoreth are cast down, and Labelas defeats Clangeddin's avatar.

Tom Rinschler has compiled the following list of non-human powers whose
locations during the TOT are known:

Lolth:  Menzoberranzan (Seige of Darkness)
Selvertarm:  Eryndlyn (Underdark below the High Moor) (DD)
Clangeddin Silverbeard:  Rauthym (FR Comic)
Deep Duerra:  Underspires, Southern Underdark (DD)
Labelas Enorath:  Rauthym (FR Comic)
Segojan Earthcaller:  Hardbuckler (DD)
Urdlen:  Hardbuckler (DD)
Sekolah:  Alamber Sea (P&P (under Anhur))
Ilsensine:  Oryndoll (Underdark under the Shining Plains) (Drizzt
Do'Urden's Guide to the Underdark)
TOP | Intro

1.2.17. What happens if an other-spheric priest comes over to the
Realms, bringing his worship of god with him?

From F&A:
It depends. :)
If the priest's god's portfolios are similar to those held by a member
of the pantheon of the land in which the priest finds himself, one of
three things happens.
1. The priest converts to worship of the native deity.
2. The native deity grants the priest's spells and wins him over
gradually.
3. The priest loses power.
4. The priest's deity arrives to contest the portfolio.
TOP | Intro

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